Call goes out: mandate boat licensing. Should they do it or not, If you really think

[Fun Times]

About this and the way you learned to drive a boat and Knowing what you know now about boating, Do you still think a license is needed? Yes or no??? Also Remember this has been the way boating has been for years, Learn as you go, Just try to becarefull is all. People have car accidents every day, And we are all trained to drive a car!!! So once again yes or no??? Law enforcement officers want boaters licensed before they get behind the wheel



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[SIZE=-1]10:00 PM PDT on Thursday, July 23, 2009[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]By GENE GHIOTTO[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The Press-Enterprise[/SIZE]

A personal watercraft shooting out a rooster tail as it zipped across Lake Elsinore recently caught the eye of a couple of sheriff's deputies on patrol.
The rider whipped a 180-degree turn and suddenly was traveling against the flow of boat traffic. On a busier day, it could have been an accident waiting to happen.
For Riverside County sheriff's deputies Bill Young and Scott Larsen, watching from their patrol boat, it was a good example of the need for licensing requirements for boaters, much like the licenses automobile drivers must have.

Story continues below​

David Bauman / The Press-Enterprise​

Riverside County deputies Bill Young, left, and Scott Larsen cite boaters on Lake Elsinore. California had 686 boating accidents last year, leading to 48 deaths. Four of those fatalities and 13 injuries came in Riverside County. San Bernardino County had no deaths but 49 injuries.​

Licenses would be a way to ensure that boaters know the rules of the water, the deputies said.
As it stands, all a person needs to do is buy or rent a boat to be able to drive it -- whether it be a large, high-powered ski craft or a small but agile personal watercraft.
"You can go out and buy a boat today and be on the water tomorrow without taking any kind of safety course," Young said. "There should be some kind of licensing requirement."
Licensing for boaters was proposed last year by the Recreational Boaters of California, a nonprofit organization that works to protect the interests of recreational boaters. The measure was approved by the Legislature but vetoed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, said Gloria Sandoval, spokeswoman for the state Department of Boating and Waterways.
She cited the budget crisis as a factor in the governor's decision.
Unsafe Waters
Inexperienced boaters can violate the rules without even realizing it, law enforcement officials said. Uninformed boaters may travel against the flow of traffic on a lake, speed in no-wake zones or do trick maneuvers on personal watercraft without watching for other boats.
Mistakes can be deadly.

Story continues below​

Licensing for boaters was proposed last year by the Recreational Boaters of California. The measure gained legislative approval but was vetoed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.​

Last year, California had 686 boating accidents. Of those, 48 resulted in deaths and 382 in injuries, Sandoval said. Forty-nine percent of the accidents were alcohol-related.
Riverside County last year had 21 boating accidents that killed four people and injured 13, Sandoval said. In San Bernardino County, 47 accidents resulted in no deaths, but 49 injuries.
The state department's Web site offers tips on boating safety, rules of the waterways and an online safety course for boaters. But the course is not required.
"There is a need for boat operators to understand the rules of the water," said Sgt. Tim Smith, who is in charge of marine enforcement at the San Bernardino County sheriff's River Station, which patrols the Colorado River.
Fatal boating accidents are not uncommon on the river. Two Murrieta teens on a personal watercraft were killed there in July 2008 when they struck a boat.
Earlier this month, a 23-year-old Moreno Valley boater was killed when his southbound boat tried to pass another southbound boat and struck one heading north.
"We do believe alcohol is going to play a role in the collision," Smith said.

Story continues below​

David Bauman / The Press-Enterprise​

Deputy Bill Young, foreground, checks out a boater's registration information as Deputy Scott Larsen writes a citation. Because there is no licensing needed to drive a boat, "You can go out and buy a boat today and be on the water tomorrow without taking any kind of safety course," Young says.​

The accident still is under investigation.
Increasing the Risk
Lack of knowledge coupled with the use of alcohol increase the chances for a boating accident, experts say. While motorists cannot legally have open containers of alcohol in their vehicles, there is no such law for recreational boaters.
"Put alcohol in the mix and you have the potential for disaster," Young said.
Boat operators can be cited for boating under the influence. The operator, if older than 21, must not have a blood alcohol level of .08 or more, the same limit that applies to auto drivers.
Norb Ruhmke, superintendent at the Lake Perris State Recreation Area, agrees that boaters need licenses and safety training.
"Maybe they should go to a boating safety class before licensing," he said. "Maybe someone like the manufacturer could put on a class."
Smith said classes are needed because boats are bigger and faster than ever.
"It's not uncommon to see boats in excess of 30 feet that can go 100 miles per hour," he said.
"There is a need for boat operators to understand the rules of the water."
Reach Gene Ghiotto at 951-375-3729 or gghiotto@PE.com
Inland Events

 

[Chris]

Almost all the articles in favour of boat licensing, always seem to bring up some example of someone driving a personal watercraft like an idiot. Or, they mention some high-powered boat being driven wrecklessly.

So, I gather these licenses are going to train someone to not be an idiot ? I gather a license will stop people from drinking and boating? Not likely.

Sorta like car driver's licenses train people not to be idiots in their cars?

There are already regulations in most places and fines for not complying, it's more than enough. Adding some token boating license will solve nothing.

I think it makes sense to regulate and to put some age restrictions on who can drive a PWF or a high powered boat. Giving your 12 year old the keys to the Allison or 'Stream, probably isn't the smartest thing to do. So those types of restrictions make sense.

As for the license idea, these things are pretty much just a tax grab and nothing more.

The best training method for someone who wants to ignore the rules and regulations is to hand them a hefty infraction ticket.

Nuff said.


-Chris

 

[RNC]

I feel you should have a drivers license to drive anything over 10hp. Little kids on jet skies, is starting to get out of control.

Not boat license but at least have a auto license

 

[Chris]

I feel you should have a drivers license to drive anything over 10hp. Little kids on jet skies, is starting to get out of control.

Not boat license but at least have a auto license

Well, up here in Ontario, what we used to have was laws and regulations.

I don't completely remember what they were, but it went from pretty much nothing in the way of horsepower/age restrictions to something along the lines of .....

less than 12 years old - 10 HP or less
12-16 years old - up to 40 H.P. - no PWC's allowed
16 years and older - no restrictions, PWC's allowed

There were also some rules for when a young person was accompanied by an adult. I should probably look it all up rather than just going from memory.

But the bottom line is that, to me at least, that system of regulation makes sense. But now we've added this token license system, which they've phased in over the past number of years.

So now, you have to go and get a "license" or you can't drive a boat. But basically, you can get the license on the internet, which of course means it's just a tad bit easy to get or get help with the test. Yes, you can take a class course as well. The test is basically a multiple choice deal. Stuff like, what equipment do you need to have on board, what side is starboard etc.

To me, the license part is just another tax - plain and simple.

And at the end of the day, the fine for not having the license is probably less than the fine for not having the required equipment on board. So if the equipment fine isn't enough encouragement for people to use their brains, why would the license be?

-Chris

 

[dave]

like chris said there are idiots everywhere, weather it be on the roads, water or air. licenses don't stop people from being idiots anywhere else so why would the water be any different. a few bad apples ruin it for everyone else.

 

[Chris E]

and more good news, since a bunch of people have drowned in muskoka, the government thinks we should have to wear lifejackets, they don't have enough police on the lakes to enforce speeding on the rivers, let alone wearing lifejackets - what a load!

life jackets in speed boats - makes it easier to find the body
life jackets in the cold water - makes it easier to find the body
life jackets in a boat accident - makes it easier to find the body

anyone else see a pattern developing?

 

[Chris]

and more good news, since a bunch of people have drowned in muskoka, the government thinks we should have to wear lifejackets, they don't have enough police on the lakes to enforce speeding on the rivers, let alone wearing lifejackets - what a load!

life jackets in speed boats - makes it easier to find the body
life jackets in the cold water - makes it easier to find the body
life jackets in a boat accident - makes it easier to find the body

anyone else see a pattern developing?

Chris, there was a headline on the Sun today, saying nine people have died in nine days in Muskoka related to boating.

Obviously a sad development. But it kinda proves the point to me. Which is, enforce the existing rules and regulations and that in itself is enough.

In the end, pretty well almost everyone has gone and got their licenses and it doesn't appear to have solved a whole lot.

-Chris

 

[Chris E]

so true - you cannot legislate common sense - most of the boaters are pretty good on the whole, i've been teaching my oldest to drive the tin boat all summer, but as i told him, "we'll get your boaters licence, but then you have to pass MY test - guess which one will be harder?"

before he goes solo, he needs to know how to dock backwards and forwards, start and stop the motor, shifting, and show me where the rocks are, and display to me that he can be trusted with a such a big responsibitly. he will also be restricted to the same distance of travel as i was when i was young (within about half a km of the dock both left and right). none of that is touched during a "boater exam" - what a load of garbage.

it is a tragedy that those people died, but they made poor choices and paid the ultimate price, but legislating life jackets isn't going to stop swimmers from drowning, hopefully "premier dad" doesn't buy into this.

my kids wear lifejackets when on the dock, when in the boat and they take swimming lessons year round, that's my responsibilty as a parent. my kids don't complain and they have a choice - wear the jacket or sit in the cottage!

 

[Chris]

Well, I basically grew up at my Grandparents cottage.

And yeah, like what you do, Grandma and Grandpa had lots of rules to keep me safe. And if I broke the rules, then there was a loss of priviledges.

Like what you do, I could go certain places without a life-jacket and the minute I went beyond that, I was told I had to wear a life-jacket and let someone know where I was going so they could keep an eye on me.

As far as boating goes, I started out in a rubber dingy with oars, then progressed to an old sailboat that I could paddle and fish from, then got a electric motor for the old sailboat, then got an old fishing boat with an old 5.5, then a seaflea with the same 5.5, then a 7.5 on the flea...and on and on went the progression of power. I also had boundries as to where I could go. So I was told, you can go to that point on the lake and over to that point. If I went beyond those areas, it was by permission and usually because I was going to run an errand or visit a relative. When I got where I was going, I was to radio back to the cottage and let Grandma & Grandpa know I had arrived safely.

To me, what Grandma & Grandpa did made a lot of sense as it allowed me to learn and get experience, step by step.

By the time I was 16 or so, I was a pretty capable driver who had progressed up to driving my Dad's Bass-Boat into the mid 50's. And because of what I had learned over a number of years, I was able to drive my Dad's boat very safely and competently.

The bottom line here is that people don't need licenses, they need to start using their heads a little more.

-Chris

 

[Chris E]

The bottom line here is that people don't need licenses, they need to start using their heads a little more.

-Chris

couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[Fun Times]

couldn't have said it better myself!

X 2

 

[Wet-Willy]

I may get jumped on here,but I think a boat lisence is a good idea.The reason being that,quite simply,boats are now just as dangerous as cars in the wrong hands.At one time most boats didn't break 20MPH.Nowadays you can buy a SeaDoo off the floor that'll do 60+MPH.I sure don't want to see one of those in the hands of someone who's not qualified to run it safely.
Now I know everyone here is a responsible operator.And theres nothing wrong there.But what about the few bad apples that seem to ruin the bunch?Should there not be some way to ensure operator competancy?

I know there are arguments both for and against licenses,and some will say "Licensing won't work" and I'll hear you.But I have to respond "If licensing won't work,what will?"

 

[aqua]

I am a proctor for licencing in Canada. The licence itself was brought in to be a tool that law enforcement could use to help with the large number of fatalities.
The licence was first brought into effect for boats under 14'. This size range covered 75% of the deaths at the time. Personal watercraft accidents, and small aluminum boats. The PWC accidents were mostly caused by inexperienced users who were able to rent a PWC and run it. Main issue there was that when you are inexperienced and scared, and in trouble what do you do? That's right, they let off the throttle, now you don't have ANY steering. Now you have just crashed into whatever it was you were scared of hitting (boat, dock, land, people). When the licence came out any rental place had to have the renter write a proficiency test, and go through the controls with them, or the rental place could be fined.
Next up the small aluminum boats used for hunting and fishing in the spring/fall. This was the area of most deaths. Not so much the way they were driving the boats, but how they behaved in the boats. A high percentage of hunters/fishermen drink while doing these activities on "guys weekends" a LARGE majority of the deaths were caused by hypothermia when said intoxicated person needs to relieve himself of his beverages and stands up loses his balance and over he goes. Most drowning victims in the spring and fall are pulled out of the water with their fly down!!!
Those are the two major reasons for bringing the licencing into effect. What criminal charges are laid against your boat licence can effect your driver's licence(ie. drunk driving, careless driving, dangerous driving, etc.) That means if you are pulled over in your boat and are drunk they not only take your boat licence, but they can also take your driver's licence away.
The rest of the people out there are required to get a licence to help in the safety of the waterways, and because the government couldn't pick on one demographic.
I find the majority of the people that are experienced boaters don't have a problem passing the test(many general knowledge and common sense questions). But, I do find that many don't know the safety aspects (ie. navigational aids, weather warnings and what they mean, reasons behind who has the right of way, etc). When I give a test I always go through any wrong answers with the person, and explain why the answer is what it is. The best part of the licencing process is to force people to educate themselves on boating safety!!!
Every time I do a group test, the testers always say they learnt more reviewing the answers after the test then they had boating for years. It comes down to, you get out of it what you put into it. Those people that go online and cheat or have someone else write the test for them aren't helping anyone. Those that actually want to learn actually will come away with new knowledge of some sort.
I know that I feel better every time I send someone out the door with a licence that they deserve, because those are the people that I have to share the water with.
Is the process perfect? Not even close, but if it helps save peoples lives, is it not worth it? This system will help with boating safety. It will also scare some sense into the "idiots" out there when they can possibly lose their driver's licence as well.
SAFE BOATING!!!

 

[bigredinohio]

I personally think everyone should be mandated to attend a boating school if they plan on owning or operating a watercraft of any sort. What could it hurt other then ignorance? As for the boating license, if it's a one time thing that you can get after completing a boating course, I'd be in favor of it.

A couple of years ago, a passenger jumped off a houseboat and went into the water on a Friday during the summer. Sadly, he came up panicing then went back under and everyone on the boat sat there and watched. He finally surfaced that Sunday morning. The biggest problem we have is lack of patrol. I've only seen the ODNR Water Patrol perform one safety check for all the years I've been boating.

The stupidity of people on and off the water never ceases to amaze. Here is a picture I snapped last Labor Day of a drunk holding a beer while driving a boat with a guy riding on the boarding ladder. This was in the evening and you could just tell they were trashed.

 

[Fun Times]

I personally think everyone should be mandated to attend a boating school if they plan on owning or operating a watercraft of any sort. What could it hurt other then ignorance? As for the boating license, if it's a one time thing that you can get after completing a boating course, I'd be in favor of it.

A couple of years ago, a passenger jumped off a houseboat and went into the water on a Friday during the summer. Sadly, he came up panicing then went back under and everyone on the boat sat there and watched. He finally surfaced that Sunday morning. The biggest problem we have is lack of patrol. I've only seen the ODNR Water Patrol perform one safety check for all the years I've been boating.

The stupidity of people on and off the water never ceases to amaze. Here is a picture I snapped last Labor Day of a drunk holding a beer while driving a boat with a guy riding on the boarding ladder. This was in the evening and you could just tell they were trashed.

What can you say. When you got to go, You got to go

 

[Lundman A-14]

Well, up here in Ontario, what we used to have was laws and regulations.

I don't completely remember what they were, but it went from pretty much nothing in the way of horsepower/age restrictions to something along the lines of .....

less than 12 years old - 10 HP or less
12-16 years old - up to 40 H.P. - no PWC's allowed
16 years and older - no restrictions, PWC's allowed

There were also some rules for when a young person was accompanied by an adult. I should probably look it all up rather than just going from memory.

But the bottom line is that, to me at least, that system of regulation makes sense. But now we've added this token license system, which they've phased in over the past number of years.

So now, you have to go and get a "license" or you can't drive a boat. But basically, you can get the license on the internet, which of course means it's just a tad bit easy to get or get help with the test. Yes, you can take a class course as well. The test is basically a multiple choice deal. Stuff like, what equipment do you need to have on board, what side is starboard etc.

To me, the license part is just another tax - plain and simple.

And at the end of the day, the fine for not having the license is probably less than the fine for not having the required equipment on board. So if the equipment fine isn't enough encouragement for people to use their brains, why would the license be?

-Chris

As far as age limit is concerned and what age group can run what hp range,the above sounds like the age limits here in Indiana,USA,Chris!
I carry my boat registration with me at all times,even when I am not in the boat. License? No,...but at least have an age limit in place as to who can run what,and carry your boat/pwc registration with you at all times would
be enough,...and yeah,take a safety course,too if one is available in your area! The idiots who do the tricks on their pwcs should be warned once,second time a ticket,third offense,...banned from the lake,..and most of the time it is young teens who have no regard for the safety of those around them. Might as well be operating under the influence if they are
going to do that,and yes,let them get nailed by a Conservation Officer
or other law enforcement official for doing it! Then,and only then,may it stop.

 

[Lundman A-14]

What can you say. When you got to go, You got to go

Yep,...that happens alot down here it seems and I see alot of it happening at our US Army Corp of Engineers reservoirs in this area. Most of it takes place back in secluded coves where they THINK no one will see them!

 

[Chris]

I don't know if it was the lousy economy or what, but this summer I didn't see one cop boat on the water.

A few years back, they were on the lake almost every weekend it seemed.

This year nada. And the lake was also a lot quieter too.

I think the combination of the economy, the price of gas and poor weather slowed people's boating activities.

Hopefully 2010 will be a bit better year for boating.

-Chris

 

[bigredinohio]

That's funny because this was the first year that I actually saw a patrol boat doing safety checks where we boat. Although gas prices were better this past year then in previous years, the weather was just terrible which was our biggest factor with regards to any reduction of boaters. For the past two years, we've had to pull off our lot due to flooding after May, which is unheard of here in S. Ohio.

 

[Old Hickory]

you can't legislate stupidity ......... unless you are the US Congress; oh, wait thats an oxymoron US laws are a classic example of why legislation dose not prevent fatalities. US highway deaths are rising inspite of seatbelt laws; speed limits; air bags and blood alcohol levels. The same will be true with boating. In fact, mandatory licensing may have the opposite effect ........ putting someone behind the wheel of a boat who might not otherwise do it; because???? They now have a false sense of security due to that little piece of paper tucked in their shorts.

A moron is still a moron ........ and stupid is, as stupid dose. You can never change that. Natures way of thinning the herd.

Hick